Uplinks have short lifespans due to people actually hunting them down, half the time to spawn-camp and the other to actually get rid of it. Proximities have classically been the purview of scouts because logistics have better things to do (like keeping sentinels/squads covered/healthy). A logistics role isn't advancing into held territory without support, that's what scouts do. Logistics are support roles, thus they don't usually travel solo hacking objectives and dropping explosives. And uplinks tend to happen when opportune.

What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man

Bandwidth. I still do my uplink thing, but they only go so far now. I'm not running proto every match just so I can place down 8 instead of 6, that's just reetarded.

I know what you're saying though. At first I stopped uplinking when bandwidth was introduced, but more and more I am forced to drive around placing links or sit in the redline with the rest of the team until the match ends, lol.

For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. [...]

or th elogi did his job but a heavy/assault was crying fo rsome hives. logi dropped it and cos of the slightly broken bandwidth system the uplinks pop or scouts tak ethem out. a 'properly' fit logi can carry about 3 uplinks (gauged) once they've gone and either the supply depot has been blown up or you can't get it hacked hows a logi supposed to restock his supply?

as has been said before it doesnt take much to get lv3 or 4 in drop uplinks so any player over a few months old can get them and make a quick uplink fit in any suit they own that has an equipment slot and seeign as only the heavy suits don't have them then thats a lot of options. don't just rely on bluedot logis, if you see alack of uplinks while you're solo... err put some out. why rely on someone when you can do it yourself?

Run with a squad. Be their logi and let them slay, or slay while a squadmate logis. Blueberries are unreliable and incompetent. Stop depending on them to do things for you.

I find it more odd that blueberries that are sniping aren't able to see the 10 dudes on the pipes dropping remotes.

Or the 4 dropships flying around with no AV to be seen.

Solution: get in a squad.

He is terribly upset that bandwidth exists and he can no longer farm WPs by the thousand

to run without friends.

Yeah D, but all the blame can't always fall on Logis, others carry equipment also.

I run an advanced assault with advanced uplinks. 2 deployable at once, 15 spawns per. I can assist an Amarr logi with dropping uplinks just fine.

Maybe you need to stop running militia and standard. You know the higher tiers of dropsuit have more bandwidth, right?

You say that for technical reasons you can't squad up. Get those issues worked out then come back to Dust 514.

I-¦m a Logi, Gallente one, my "work" is scan the map... to see the enemy position. also I-¦m do the derpship..., put uplinks, rep... and stab clones with a nano inyect....

BUT I have a scout that also drops a link or stab clones...

IF you are a "assault", put a droplink, or nano inject... not only nano hives...

A real Logi is bring SUPPORT. not do the other roles jobs.

I have never see a scout... "scouting..." there are like a slim ninjas with a shotgun or knives doing the ASSAULT JOB.

And here we arrive at Godwin's Law.

what equipment do you need to do your job. from what this whole argument is about it seems you need uplinks to do your job. carry some.

I'm not against your solo playstyle, Clone. Really. It's just not the playstyle that suits this game very well. You must realize this by now.

Most of the complaints you have had all stem from running solo. Why do you think that is? It's because this game isn't suited for solo play. It's a massive multiplayer online game that features things like squads and corporations; ways for players to come together, not stay apart.

I'll draw your attention back to my Eve Online statement: you CAN solo in Eve Online, it's just boring and you hamstring yourself. The same logic holds true in Dust 514.

I didn't design the game this way. CCP did. They knew what they were doing. Players who group together continue to play a game much longer than players who run by themselves.

What if the other 15 players that spawned in with you solo all play with the exact same fitting and playstyle that you do?

This is the problem with having so many solo players. What if there are 3 dudes that just happen to be trying out tanks for the first time? Same match there are 3 dudes in a Gorgon trying to get kill assists for their daily missions, etc.

i always run with links but not all suits have 4 slots and they dont always carry multiple uplinks. they have to compromise somewhere just like you have to compromise by not running in a squad with logistics support. its all compromise and spreading the gear out between you.

you entire argument could be boiled down to logistics are not doing their job because they are not repairing everyone on the team, they are not doing their job because they are not picking up every downed clone, they are not doing their job because they are not supplying ammo to every player, they are not doing their job because every objective is not covered in re and every vehicle is not destroyed by proximity mines, they are not doing their job because every enemy has not been scanned and your argument is they are not doing their job because they are not deploying load of uplinks.

if there is an uplink logi on your team then there is no issue. if there is no uplink logi on your team then you have no logi. you need to sort it out yourself not blame a logi that isnt even in your team.

Obviously it doesn't or you would not be posting these brilliant threads every few days.

This is what I gathered from these two paragraphis:

1. Drop uplinks could use an increase in number of spawns. Exact numbers aren't clear at this time. Might require some examination of the current spawn allotments before I can say this is a sure thing.
2. There needs to be more logi players in squads
3. Amarr and Caldari (the deployable logis) might need more bandwidth
4. No other dropsuit needs more bandwidth, so that logis remain the best at deploying equipment

How do you make in game observation of squadded players when you aren't in squads? Supposedly your PS3 will explode into shards of obsidian if you even lightly hover over the Invite to Squad button Let's pretend that you have been in a squad once or twice. It's obvious that you spend the majority of your time solo. You have no idea how well squads can run when they are populated by players who work well together.

Squadded players can change roles just as easily as an unsquadded player. We can do so quickly due to having immediate feedback from our squadmates.
"Sentinels in the hallway." So a mate changes to a sentinel fitting of his own.
"Scouts around alpha." So a mate switchs to an Amarr scout fitted for scan range.
"That ADS is hovering around the supply depot." The AV guy moves from alpha to the supply depot to harass the ADS.

You get the idea.

You are talking about things you have no clue about.

Sides usually scouts run links/hunt links just in case. Then the Amarr logi sets some as well.

How do you make in game observation of squadded players when you aren't in squads? Supposedly your PS3 will explode into shards of obsidian if you even lightly hover over the Invite to Squad button Let's pretend that you have been in a squad once or twice. It's obvious that you spend the majority of your time solo. You have no idea how well squads can run when they are populated by players who work well together.

Squadded players can change roles just as easily as an unsquadded player. We can do so quickly due to having immediate feedback from our squadmates.
"Sentinels in the hallway." So a mate changes to a sentinel fitting of his own.
"Scouts around alpha." So a mate switches to an Amarr scout fitted for scan range.
"That ADS is hovering around the supply depot." The AV guy moves from alpha to the supply depot to harass the ADS.

You get the idea.

You are talking about things you have no clue about.

Everyone is expected to help, to one extent or another, with another classes' role so long as doing so does not cause a role to become obsolete. Such as in the case of logi-tourism that occurred up until the point where bandwidth was introduced.

So 1, but with amendments.

I was referring to the idea of anyone babysitting their own.

Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this.

Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you.

So, now we finally come to the real issue. It's not that "logis aren't doing their jobs" it's that there aren't enough people actually playing logi. Or at least, based on my experience, not enough people not running some ****** APEX (logi) suit.

Oh, I know that there are plenty of matches where very little equipment is placed. But while bandwidth has limited some of the previous logi tourism, it is pretty obvious that so many people running APEX suits (and it wouldn't surprise me if logistics commit this sin more than any other role, for obvious reasons) has a lot to do with it as well.

Ok, let's try this, OP.

Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1.

Now whats your opinion?

Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong.

I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simply confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll.

Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want!
You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing.

My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion.

TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions.

So again, no.

Then why did you answer my question as you did? Now you wouldn't be happy with just changing the BW costs of explosives?

All righty. Carry on with your badposting then I guess.

[...] so what you are saying that if RE BW was dropped, you would still be dissatisfied with the BW system? Why?

When you give your answer, please assume for the sake of the discussion that BW is never ever going to be completely removed from the game and it is mandatory for further game development that we have a thriving Logi community. [...]

Operating under that set of conditions, what would make you happy with this system?

Note: Aside from reducing the BW costs of explosives to free up BW for something else, giving scouts more BW is not on the table because as I've already stated, there's no way that will incentivize people to become logi's - it is in fact guaranteed to do the exact opposite because we've already tried letting scouts be do-everything suits with their second EQ slot and here we are. It's not a coincidence that scouts were given so little BW in the first place.

So basically you are saying everything can and should be able to done better in a scout suit? Does that sound like an ideal or balanced solution in ANY WAY to you? I suppose it does otherwise you wouldn't have said it the way you did.

That's all I needed to read. I don't want to play the game you describe.

That's not what your said at all. You said (paraphrasing slightly): if scouts can do x better, why not? If they can also do y better, why not? Why should we be forcing them out of that?
Here:



Because that makes no f*cking sense! Why do the other godd@mn suits even exist then? Does the concept of game balance have any meaning to you?

In a game with 5 classes of suit, if one (the scout) is the way you describe then it's pathetically broken and major changes need to occur. The question you should ask isn't why are we trying to push people out of it, its what idiot designed a game like that in the first place!

Otherwise you may as well just take tiericide to the 100th power, get rid of every other suit, make one standard base blueprint, give a list of modules and let everyone make a slighty-less-generic version of the same suit for different needs. It will be a revolution in gaming!

My logi with proto proxies, RE and nanohive work great in certain scenarios.

Get me on the bridge map with that suit and unless the tank is paying fantastic attention there's no more tank.

D, you have the ability to "perform" any role from any suit now, as BW is.
Are you as effective at it than suits designed to optimize that role? No, and you shouldn't be. Thats why suit base specialization exists.

As far as raising the BW limits for SAC, why? They have enough to self-support at a basic level OR weaponize further, as you've proven repeatedly. It just isn't enough BW to do both, simultaneously. Just like how none of my Logi suits can generate passive scans low enough and far enough to detect dampened scouts. If I want to do that, I need a scout frame and to sacrifice most of my Logi gear.

Do I help my team with that uplink right now, or do I perform my job better with an RE?

There are still too many uplinks being placed on the map by ppl who know to do that. No uplinks doesn't mean bandwidth is bad, it means too many people are not informed about how to play the game.

But this, again, already proves the point contrary to your arguement.

That assault, if absolutley need be, CAN drop that precious link should his discretion determine its neccessity.
Does that commit his equipment capability? Yes.
Does that subsequently render him battlefield useless? No. He still has his LW, his SA and his G. In addition to whatever his base+mods stats create. He can continue assaulting, minus the committed equipment.

Try it like this:

Can't speak for everyone, but lets take my bridge map for example.

My demolitions logi has a proto PE, Advanced, PE, Proto rep nanohive and proto RE.

I'll drop out as many PE in a cluster as allowed with each type (I think it totals 7). Since tankers rarely turn around and come back across the map (They usually make a big circle around the map), I'll watch once or twice and see which way they prefer to go and then drop my RE's just past the PEs. If the tanker survives the PEs, the REs are there to finish the job.

After that, it's resupply with my nanohive if there's no supply depot. If there is a supply depot I usually switch out of the suit for one of my many other logi fits. If I have to stay in my demolitions suit, I play "hide and go seek then destroy" because it's also dampener/speed fit

Still laughing... If only you knew...



Oh. my. GOD!

I can't even... It's just... Wow.

Seriously? That's your counter-argument? It does not matter which suit you are talking about! No matter which suit it is, if it is working as you describe, ITS BROKEN.

Every suit should be viable and unquestionably, with no room for debate, superior in every major aspect of its designated role. End of story.

Honestly, I've lost all hope here.

Post a traceroute to the servers.

It only makes it wrong if the following are true:
- you don't have to make enough sacrifices to do it
- you can make it better than the suit designed for the role can be (assuming it, too, is being set up for the same purpose, obviously)

I hate to burst your little "I am freaking AWESOME" bubble, but the reason you can make scout suits to do all this sh!t medium suits are designed for so well has nothing to do with your singular talent to squeeze evey last ounce of performance out of it and everything to do with a broken system.

I got you CloNe. I just went proto minmatar logi. And I'm back on Dust. o7

Hmm... lessee... a sentinel chasing down a scout...

That "scout" has no idea what he's doing then. Maybe he should try not putting regular complex plates on a frickin' light frame.

Speed tanked Min sentinels will not chase down a scout who has any idea how to fit a suit. An Amarr assault, sure, but that assault will quite possibly have more eHP than the sentinel and their ScR is gonna be murder on the shield HP they are dependent on.

That same Min Sentinel would get torn apart by a CQC sentinel, too.

Can go outside normal parameters but makes a lot of sacrifices. Working as intended.

Let me explain it this way:

Fitting freedom/customization should allow you to blur the lines between suit classes, not erase them.

Credibility is a kind of authority. There is no better way to enhance your authority that to use it well; no better way to undermine your own authority than to use it badly.

The entire concept of game balance and player classes is based on ONE simple principle:

Every class has a particular function/role/specialization for which they are designed to be "best" at. No other class, when both are being used as intended by the designer should be nearly as effective at it.

When this is no longer the case, one class is rendered obsolete. This is improper game design and results in a lack of diversity in the long run as everyone will use the same imbalanced class.

If paper always beats scissors, too, nobody will ever use a rock.

If you are unable to grasp that as not just an aim, but as a necessity, then there Is no point in continuing.

[...]See,i can be stupid too.

PEs aren't grenades meant to be offensive,they are for re-inforcing an already secure area.